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([personal profile] temporus Oct. 7th, 2009 08:37 pm)
I haven't done a report on new Kindle details in a while.  Today's news is quite interesting.

Today, Amazon released an INTERNATIONAL version of their Kindle ebook reader.   I had a feeling this would be coming down the pike eventually, since a number of other ereaders were coming out on the market, and the major advantage that Kindle has is the link to the Amazon store.  If that link only worked outside the US, it would be fantastic.  I'll admit though, I didn't think they were ready for it this year.  I mean, I figured the technology wasn't likely a problem, but that somehow their contract with Sprint might preclude the idea.  But then I think that shows just how US minded I am, and how I've been trained to believe in the locked into a phone vendor philosophy they brainwash us with here.

And now, if you have the International version of the reader, it will work anywhere.  Note, from what I can tell, the International version will work in the US, but if you are a US customer and go abroad and use the wireless download, you'll incur an extra fee.  And as it says that extra fee is for US customers only, I suspect they don't want it abused.

However, this presents and interesting phenomenon in that there will be two identical Kindles, one that is just US only (Now lowered to $259!)  and a International version ($279)  The bigscreen DX stays at the moment US only and still runs at $489.  I so want one, but can't possibly justify it at the moment.

I think Amazon is poised on the brink.  If they can shave off a bit more of the cost on these, I think you'll see the market for the ereaders and hence the ebooks themselves explode.  If you could have all the features of the Kindle at the $200 or under mark, I think a good number of casual readers will find these fantastic.

I still think there's a culture shift that needs to happen as so many, many people will say, again and again to me: but I just love the way a book feels, and I don't think I could enjoy a book on a screen.  I kind of get tired of hearing that argument, but I can understand where they come from.   Here's my opinion on the matter: if you haven't tried reading on the Kindle (or Sony or equivalent quality eInk reader) I think you're rushing to a judgement without taking it for a test drive.   Don't flip on the screen look at it for a second say: neat, then ignore it.  Read a story.  Read a whole story.  See what happens once you get absorbed into reading.  I think you'll be surprised to find how easy it becomes to forget about the reader itself, and get lost in the story.

What do you think?  What's your price point before you'd buy an ereader?  
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From: [identity profile] blue-23.livejournal.com

Price point


The price point is getting where I want it to be, but there are other show stoppers. Primarily is DRM/Amazon control. If I buy a physical book, I *BUY A BOOK*, not license a product under someone else's control. I have books I've had since I was a teenager, and I don't need to worry about limited number of downloads since in the decades since then I would have replaced a reader several times. I don't want to have to worry they'll delete it because the publisher asks like what happened with the George Orwell books. I want to be able to loan it to a friend. And I'm fine with not being able to read it during that period.

With all of the free books out there, I get everything I ask. But there aren't enough free books out there that interest me such that I'd spend money on them to justify the price point yet. That'll change. The price for the unit and the price for the books are getting there, you just have to convince my I can *do* everything with a ebook I buy from amazon that I currently do with a physical book I buy from amazon, or that the price savings are worth giving up some rights (like sharing books).

From: [identity profile] temporus.livejournal.com

Re: Price point


When you buy an ebook from Amazon, you own it. There are NO limits on the number of downloads. There are limits on the number of DEVICES you can download it to. But you can always go back and download it again. You can also make as many backup copies of your files as you want. I have all of my purchased copies backed up onto my laptop, my old laptop that I haven't turned in yet, my external harddrive, my home NAS, and I could also make backup copies out to my other computers if I wanted. I can delete the local copy off my Kindle, and then copy it back over. It's just not the boogeyman problem people seem to want to make it out to be.

The George Orwell debacle was, just that. A debacle. But note two very important facts about that. Someone independantly uploaded a "public domain" edition of the Orwell books, and then was selling them. IE, they were doing something illegal. What that tells me more about is the fact that Amazon hasn't got their act together as much as they thought when it comes to verifying that the person who adds a book to their catalog actually has the right to do so. Hence they removed the books. It sounds bad, but in effect the books were stolen goods. If you have a stolen stereo in your house, the police have the right to confiscate it. And the police don't have to give you your money back. In this instance, I think the blunder is that Amazon acted as if they were the in the place of the police, and removed the books. But they gave back the purchase price to the individuals who'd bought the books, hoping it would be a no harm, no foul situation. I can't stand fully on the side that Amazon handled everything in this case right. I think they overshot the mark, because they were probably afraid of a major lawsuit for violation of copyright (and in this instance that's pretty much what it was) and some bean counter/lwayre combo decided that this approach would be less overall flak.

I think they misjudged that, and would have been better off being forced to do the removal by court order, it would have at least made it clear they were doing it to specifically comply with the law and law enforcement. Remember, the copies that were out there on people's Kindles of those particular books were STOLEN GOODS. You don't have a legal right to keep stolen goods. If they were stolen copies of books bought from B&N and they were tracked down, the owners wouldn't have the defense of saying: I don't have to give them back because I didn't know they were stolen. It's still stolen and they would have to have been returned. In my opinion the major gaff is that Amazon was pre-emptively trying to play law enforcement.

Also, everyone who brings up DRM seems to forget this. You don't have to buy your books from Amazon. They just make it so damn easy you will be most likely to buy from them. But you don't have to. You can buy from competitors, as long as they put out books in certain formats. (Mobipocket edition would be the most likley, with HTML probably being the next easily available. And if you go with the DX, then you can handle PDF. I'm unsure that PDF would work with a purchased elsewhere copy that you'd have to send to Amazon to convert formats...that could get sticky.)

Now, as to book loaning...that's a tough one. As someone who has personally benefited from your generous library and loan policy, I admit that has value. Value to you, to be able to share good experiences with friends. Value to the publishers and authors as well because while they may not get me to buy the book you loaned me, if I like the author I might begin to buy other books by the author. (Though that's no guarantee, and I might just consume your copies the way I used to do with Mike's comics.)

From: [identity profile] sartorias.livejournal.com


Stilkl can't afford one--but I hate the thought that you don't own your books that you pay for, they do. If you cancel your account, the books vanish. If I get $ I will probably get a Sony.

From: [identity profile] edhorch.livejournal.com


Couple of things: Right now Kindles are like mattresses in that there's no nice way to take one for an extended test-drive. It'd be great if I could rent one for a couple months, use it in real-world conditions, and if I like it, apply part of the rental to the purchase, and if I don't, to be able to return it no questions asked, and that includes if it fell over and died because from a foot off the floor.

So, it's not really a matter of price point. I don't think Kindles are too expensive for what you get. It's a matter of having enough time to really got through the transition from physical books to an e-reader and see how that changes my reading experience, for worse and for better.

But my biggest concern is exemplified by what happened with the latest mandatory PS3 software update: Not only did it brick a lot of PS3s, it actually damaged the hardware on some of them, and Sony is now being sued to get them to drop the $150 charge to repair the the hardware damage that their mandatory software update caused. I'd hate to have this neat collection of books that I could no longer read because something beyond my control bricked my Kindle.

To be fair, I honestly don't know enough about the DRM/EULA issues to have an opinion on that.

From: [identity profile] temporus.livejournal.com


I don't believe that the books vanish if you cancel your account. This is the first I've heard of that. You aren't required to even buy your books from Amazon, so I'm not sure how that would even be feasible. For example out of the 600+ books I've got on my Kindle, I've only bought about 20 from Amazon. Most of the rest are freebies either direct from some publishers in mobipocket format (you can download a number of the Baen Free Library in Kindle compatable format) or are much older public domain works. I've even noticed a few authors on the web making books available free. I grab those, and read away.

Sonys are even cheaper. I think they've got Sonys down under the "magic" $200 mark. At least, I've seen them advertised on various discout webtailers that way.

I looked at both the K and the Sony, and found the Sony slightly lacking, but I think it might be more akin to some people like Fords, others Hondas, etc. I don't expect it will be a problem long run, and simply put the more of these out in the market, the better for everyone. Hopefully some standards will be driven and everyone will benefit.

From: [identity profile] temporus.livejournal.com


Hmm...the software update breaking your device is a potential problem. Anything that auto updates can be a problem. On the other hand, with the K, you can keep the wireless off most of the time, and that prevents most issues.

It only pulls down the updates when two conditions are met. You have wireless on, and the device goes into screen saver mode. (IE you left it idle for more than X minutes, where X is a number I'm too tired to track down at the moment.) So you can, by being dilligent keep the wireless off, turn it on only for the time you need it, then turn it back off. Which is how I missed the last update. Then I had to go and intentionally let the device sit there with the wireless on, and ignore it for like a half hour.

Still, the potential for a big glitch is a problem. On the other hand, if the price point is low enough, it shouldn't be much more of a problem than when you lose/trash an iPod. Since you can back up your own files, and transfer the download rights to the new device, it's not impossible to replace one. Probably just annoying. And if you have an iPhone or iPod Touch, you can download the free Kindle app, and sync up your stuff there. That would allow you an alternate route to your files. (Of course some would say an alternate route that is superior, but I somewhat disagree, as I find the current size of iPhone/touch to be comfortable for long term reading.)

As to a field test, it might be possible to arrange something like that with a particular friend who is currently reading a dead tree book. If you're seriosuly interested, let me know.

From: [identity profile] sartorias.livejournal.com


I'm told if you buy from amazon then later cancel your account your kindl goes dark and your library vanishes.

From: [identity profile] mepurfield.livejournal.com


I still cant afford one. But then again, I do love the act of collecting a book. i can see the appea of a Kindle. If it works for you, great.

It's still early in the game but ebooks will work out its bugs.

I don't see it hurting publishing. I see it as an enhancement and another right for the author to make money from. The Kindle will not be the death of paper. I'm sure of that.

From: [identity profile] temporus.livejournal.com


That's not my understanding. I guess if you cancel your amazon account (not sure why, there's no monthly fee associated with having it.) that the device is registered to, it could mean your digital library goes away. But I don't see how that would make your Kindle go dark. The device itself is useable even without Amazon, and you can supply plenty of materials without going through Amazon. I'd be curious if you have a cite on that, or it's just speculation by someone that is being pawned off as fact.

From: [identity profile] sartorias.livejournal.com


I was told that when the kindle first came out . . . but it could be wrong.

From: [identity profile] blue-23.livejournal.com


I've heard something similar. The story I got (and I haven't verified it, it could be apocryphal) is that someone got their Amazon account canceled for returning too many things, and when they did they no longer had access ot the books their bought from Amazon.

Amazon reinstated their account, and my guess is that in the future they will be separating these.

From: [identity profile] jongibbs.livejournal.com


Maybe I'm just getting old, but I'm not sure if it's something I'd ever use. Then again, I used to feel that way about audio books :)

From: [identity profile] temporus.livejournal.com


I don't think it's an age thing, so much as general preferences. I am, at heart, a technogeek. I love gadgets. I love it when gadgets can make my life easier/better. Having essentially unlimited books at my disposal is, to me, better.

From: [identity profile] temporus.livejournal.com


I think that within the next two to three years, the market is going to explode and change rapidly after that. There will be many more ereaders on the market soon. That's going to make a big change as competition does bring down pricing, and force people to innovate further.

What I suspect everyone out there is waiting for, is the damn file format war to be over. Once everyone can finally agree on a single format, life will be just that much easier for the publishers, which WILL bring down the costs for consumers.

From: [identity profile] jongibbs.livejournal.com


Lol.

It's an age thing too. My generation had essentially unlimited books at our disposal too. We kept them in a little gizmo we liked to call 'libraries' :P

See you tomorrow :)
.

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